Bingo. Just as for years the WTS was proclaiming the coming of '75, and when it came and went, the Society expertly deflected the failed expectation away from the shepherd onto the sheep for having gotten their expectations too high.
The Firm
JoinedPosts by The Firm
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3
Scape - goat
by Blueblades ina person,group or thing upon whom the "blame" for the mistakes or crimes of other's is thrust,making them a scapegoat.what do you think?has the wt.
society been guilty of doing this to you?
if so,how so?as for me ,the answer is yes.from the time i read the book,"things in which it is impossible for god to lie".i couldn't see the words,"however, if "we" are caught in a lie, it's all your fault,it's your mistake.when "we" were proven to be mistaken,it's still all your fault.ssshhh, keep quiet you scapegoat!
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OSU-Michigan - the best rivalry in sports
by DanTheMan in.
go bucks!!!!.
if they can beat those wolverines, it's off to tempe.
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The Firm
Woo-hooo!! That's my kind of party. I'll be down there by 9am. Pray that my car doesn't get turned over.....especially by me. Go bucks!
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Reformed Episcopal View of Christ
by thepreacher innecessity of the old testament in understanding the work of christ
by curtis i. crenshaw .
i n the volume of the book, it is written of christ (
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The Firm
Whoa, easy on the newbie, fellahs. Ha ha, my what large teeth you have! Well Clash, if you're hell-bent (hell, get it?) on being mean to me, well I'll just have to be extra nice to you. Really though, I come in peace.
Clash: Yep, I must have been dislexic on the 9 and 6 thing. Either way, Heb 9 and/or 6, does not deny the Mass one bit. In fact, it supports it, also since Hebrews was written by a Catholic. The only thing clear is that you have absolutely no idea what the Mass is or isn't. The CC doctrine has not changed one iota since its inception in 33AD. Welp, you might think the CC is Satan's synagouge, but he's tried to destroy the CC for 2000 years to no avail. What's he done to divide yours? Prespertyrianism has changed its doctrine and split countless times since its inception in the 16th ctry. The Presbyterian religion hates Catholics, so I'm not the least bit offended at your stance. In fact, I probably would hate me too if I were you. Oh, ever heard of Scott Hahn?
Undisfellowhipped: hello my noble berean friend! Thanks for your generous replies. On the Eucharist: Dozens of texts, but one should suffice:Mt 26:26 (cf Mk 14:22ff., Lk 22:17ff.). Also, Paul indicates a severe penalty for not receiving the Body and Blood worthily in 1Cor11:23-29, which hasn't changed even today. Further, St. Irenaus in 110 AD wrote, "{heretics} abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ..." (Letter to Smyraeans 6,2). How true today as well as in 110 AD.
Undish: regarding authority, all 12 of those verses you quoted corroborate completely with the CC. Again, I question your and Clash's knowledge on Catholic doctrine. It's evidently not what you think it is. Anyway, basing one's beliefs on the Bible, then turning around and pointing to the Bible to justify those beliefs is the pluperfect form of circular reasoning. It's like taking an extension cord, plugging the male-end into the female-end, and expecting to get electricity out of it. Plug into the church from which all energy flows, and has flowed for 2000 years. After all, all of your anscestors were Catholic for hundreds of years until someone went AWOL recently. Reminds me in Acts when Saul was persecuting the church. Christ appeared to him and asked, "Saul, why thou persecuteth me?" Saul COULD have said "Hey there buddy boy, I wasn't persecuting YOU, just this here church!". Obviously, persecuting the church IS persecuting Christ. I know that none of us wish to do that.
Sorry to ramble: just wanted to be thorough. Peace be with you both.
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Other religions are abusive too.,
by wednesday ini know jw's are abusive psychologicaly to their members, however so are other churches.
case in point, i knew a woman who would not marry b/c the pope said not to use birth control.
she did not want children, and she could not find it within herself to go against the pope.
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The Firm
Wednesday, are you really considering leaving JW? Sounds like you're searching for the lessest of the remaining evils. Well, since ya asked, I'll toss a good word in for the CC. Her 4 marks beat any other church's marks: One (same liturgy across the world), holy (founded by Christ himself), catholic (universal, excluding no one), and apostolic (unbroken chain of clergy since Christ & the Apostles). CC also wrote and settled on the canon of the Bible, so the NT is based on the CC, not the other way around. Just a few tidbits there.
I'm sure there are things that seem to be repulsive, like confession (Jn 20:23), but I strongly encourage seeking the wisdom of those things before rejecting them. Venerating Mary/saints, purgatory, confession, etc. usually get laughed off without an ounce of consideration. Bottom line: judge a medicine by those who take it, not by those who don't. Feel free to drop me an email if you'd prefer to chat less-publicly. HTH!
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Getting Married as a Catholic
by teenyuck inmy husband and i got into a discussion about joining the local catholic church, signing up for 2.5% of our income and getting married by a priest.
never went to church until 5 years ago.
we agreed to look into it.
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The Firm
teenyuck,
Just a thought here, but the CC would need to investigate your specific case. Particularly of concern is validity of your former and/or current marriage. If a valid marriage has not been contracted, then there's nothing to renew except sinful union only, and a priest can be no part of that or else it's scandal. Just letting you know that it may be a process, but there's a wisdom to it although not immediately apparent. Being patient and understanding may be the toughest test for you, but hang in there.
On another note, I'm floored to see the words "JW" and "Catholic" in the same breath on this forum. Might be because I'm a newbie, but this is the last place I'd expect to see charitable answers from people here that would otherwise have zero interest in supporting anything Catholic. I've got to ask what Mass must seem like to you when you do go? (don't have to answer that, just curious).
Finally, this might interest you: http://www.saintjoe.com/products/8001.html It's a 3-tape set of Mary Kochan's "My Journey From the Watchtower" where she chronicles her jump from JW to Catholic. If you ever wondered why anyone would join the CC, much less a JW, this series is very riveting and informative. Just fyi.
Good luck, and "may the peace of the Lord be with you always..."
-alan
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OSU-Michigan - the best rivalry in sports
by DanTheMan in.
go bucks!!!!.
if they can beat those wolverines, it's off to tempe.
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The Firm
Yes!! Go Buckeyes!! Hey, where in Columbus is there a good spot to camp out and watch the game? I'm about an hour and a half north and just can't sit at home--gotta be in Buckeye country. But I'm assuming that the city's going to be too crazy to have any hope of finding a sports bar that isn't nuts-packed. Any advice on this?
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Non-JW needs advice
by agr8day infirst off, those who have left the watchtower are extraordinarily courageous and thank you so much for having the fortitude to post your stories publicly.
you are all no doubt helping untold numbers of people.
i am catholic and i have a friend who is a jw.
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The Firm
AAAAAAAHHHH!!! agr8day, you're just the kind of person in the right kind of situation I've been looking for. I'm going to live vicariously thru your experience with this, for I already went through it once and I'd give anything (except my soul) to do it again.
You're in an amazingly strong predicament to help rope this friend out of the Society. Mostly because of your friendliness and Catholicity. Believe me, being Catholic is the least threatening to a JW, which means that not much is expected in the way of apologetics. How well do you know your Catholic faith? Non-catechised Catholics make terrific JW's, so it's obviously important to be able to know, understand, and defend essential matters should the situation present itself. Here's a great link of some JW apologetics with a Catholic standpoint:
http://www.catholic.com/library/stumpers_for_jehovah_witnesse.asp
Please click on my profile and send me an email if you'd like further info. If you eventually want to help pull your friend out, I (and others here) can help. May the peace of the Lord be with you always....
-alan
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The Firm
Hello and welcome, lilwolf. Wow! How was it that he married a non-JW? I thought mixed marriages were VERY discouraged in the society (I should know, I tried to marry a JW ). Anyway, there are a few key things to know:
+ know that he may leave you outright
+ know that he/WBTS might rope you in. Get to know some of the JW doctrine to prepare yourself for the inevitable. We've all been there--it's not difficult to give into the extreme pressure gradient of joining the society.
+ know the vows you and your husband took--"for better or worse, till death do us part". (is that about right?)
+ know that the WBTS teaches a hidden, separate vow: "...til death {or fornication} do us part..." In other words, cheating by one party or another can break the marriage vow. (Also know that that is a novel tradition NOT taught by Christ or the early church.) What that means is that if push comes to shove down the line, if he should someday cheat on you, that would break the marriage bond with God and he's miraculously be free to marry again. Or, he may put you in a situation so deprived that "cheating" is encouraged on your part.
+ know that you may be able to save him. You see, the fear levied agains the rank-&-file JW is so severe that it's almost impossible to leave. It's a very bitter reality, but hope is not lost. There's lots of great folks here to help you work through it, so get your lasso ready. You're actually at an advantage because you have access to more information than your husband does. Keep in touch!!!
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Russell the messenger
by Beans inhere is some interesting views of the former leader.. http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/russell.htm.
*** watchtower 1917 november 1 p.323 ***.
[note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 cd-rom] .
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The Firm
Who were messengers 2,3,4,5,6?
According to Studies in the Scriptures, series 7 "The Finished Mystery", Messenger 2 was John; #3= Arius, #4=Waldo, #5= Wycliffe, #6=Luther. Hope this helps!
-alan
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Jehovah is a forgiving God
by Beans2 inas jehovah leads the faithful and discreet slave how has it contributed to your life and what does the slave mean to you?.
to me it is the right spiritual food at the right time!.
agapa.
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The Firm
Wow, beans, that was quite a funny couple 'o posts! Took me a minute to see the 2nd person "beans2". You know, you're only one step from a "trinity" of sorts.
Reminds me of a joke: Roses are red; violets are blue; I'm a skitzophrenic, and so am I. (enter rim shot here).